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Note 44.318 MOUNT-L 318 of 517 CUPIDO::STRITAR "Andrej Stritar,IJS,(61)-371-321" 122 lines 31-JAN-1994 08:29
CUPIDO::STRITAR "Andrej Stritar,IJS,(61)-371-321" 122 lines 31-JAN-1994 08:29
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From: STENAR::STENAR::MRGATE::"X400::1=de::2=d400::3=tr::5=edu::4=metu::4=cc::4=vm::6=MOUNT-L" 28-JA
To: CUPIDO::STRITAR
CC:
Subj: Re: High altitude problems

From: NAME: Mountaineering Discussion List MOUNT-L
FUNC: edu <6=MOUNT-L@4=VM@4=CC@4=METU@5=EDU@3=TR@2=D400@1=DE@X400@STENAR>
To: NAME: Multiple Recipients of
FUNC: edu <6=MOUNT-L@4=VM@4=CC@4=METU@5=EDU@3=TR@2=D400@1=DE@X400@STENAR>

RFC-822-HEADERS:
Comments: To: MOUNT-L@vm.cc.metu.edu.tr

Date: 28-Jan-1994
Posted-date: 28-Jan-1994

Well, I must admit that I really shot myself in the foot regarding Dr.
Houston, so I will try to patch up the damage. I have read some of
Dr. Houston's works and I have no idea why the name didn't ring a bell
initially. I guess it has to do with the fact that I am really bad
with names. Also, mountaineering and related activities are strictly
recreation for me, since I am a electrical engineer employed in a
professional staff posistion here at Indiana University's computer
science department. Don't blame others here at IU for my stupidity.
I may know some of them but I am in no way connected with their
research.

> Stuart Milligan writes:
>
> Willie Hunt is right, climbers must take calculated risks, but high altitude
> health risks are not worth the price.

I think I may have not explained the Cotopaxi stituation well. Alex
and I didn't consider the stituation to be a problem until we were
alreadly on the summit. Understand that Alex is a second year medical
student and has much more knowledge about altitude problems than most
climbers, myself included. Don't get me wrong, he is no expert, but
neither is he a lay-person either. Alex realized at the summit that
he was in trouble, and so we spent a minimum of time there before
rapidly decending. I didn't have a problem except if my natural
breathing response was interrupted. Since I was breathing at 40 to 60
breaths/min, anything like talking or drinking was a problem. I
didn't consider this breathing rate to be abnormal for me since on all
climbs above about 3000m (10000 feet), I climb at a rate limited by my
breathing at 60/min. The first time I climbed with Alex he was
concerned that I might have HAPE, but upon resting my breathing rate
returned to normal and there were no symtoms of HAPE. Alex still
doesn't understand why I don't have nausea problems breathing at
60/min for hour on end. I don't either, but it works for me. Any
comments?

One point, I find interesting, is our rates of climb. Below 4000m Alex
can out climb me aerobicly and he should since his sea-level VO2 max
is higher than mine. However from 4000m to 5000m thing even up.
Above 5000m I definitely take the lead. It was fun to actually get to
tug on Alex for a change.

Another point is my change in aerobic conditioning after spending time
at high altitude. Normally, I can crank out 225 watts for 30 minutes
on my stationary ergometer, which is around 90% VO2 max. But after
returning from Ecuador I couldn't do 200 watts for 30 minutes and had
trouble with 180 watts. I realize that this is in no way scientific,
but I have noticed similar but smaller effects after other trips.
There are many possbile reasons for this, but it seems to me that at
high altitude I simply can not exercise at a level sufficient to
maintain my normal aerobic condition. Does this seem reasonable or am
I way off base?

> Stuart Milligan writes:
>
> I'd like to hear of more serious physical ailments at high altitude from
> climbers on this list. I've never met anyone who has had repeated bouts
> of HAPE/HACE nearly every time they go high, though I suspect it does
> happen. But, you'd have to be a masochist to keep going back for more of
> a beating. So, do mountaineers have a streak of masochism in them?

I wonder about that every time I climb for 12 hours with a 80 lbs
pack, or go on a 90 mile bike ride, or go caving for 20 hours, and
these activities are tame compared with some of the ultra endurance
events I know about. I wonder sometimes if hard labor in a prison
camp wouldn't be physically easier than the usual mountain trip I do,
since I usually go from 143 lbs to 137 lbs even though I eat much more
and much higher fat food too. Why is it that just after a nasty
winter trip where I was lucky not to get frostbite because I could
barely keep my feet and hands warm at -20 F, I gladly go out ice
climbing in -10 F weather with a strong wind? Or how about torturing
my muscles and tendons on 5.11 rock climbs, only to do it the next day
and the next so that soon I can torture them on 5.12 climbs? What
about continuing to go back to the same cave with a nasty 1200 foot
crawlway at the entrance?

I see a common thread here and it doesn't look good. Masochist? Who
knows, but I see this same behavior in all avid caving, climbing,
moutaineering people I get to know. Some don't take it as far as I
do, and others much, much further. I have met people who continue to
climb to high altitudes only to get AMS every time, so I have no doubt
that there are some people who would keep going back again and again
even getting HAPE as long as they physically could.

Willie Hunt

PS

Someday, I may gain as much mountain experience as many on this group,
but I have noticed that in the past 10 years my tolerance for self
torture has increased by leaps and bounds and I am afraid of where
this might lead. 2 years ago I had no idea I would be climbing
mountains much less 20000 foot ones. I wonder what I will being doing
in next 2 years?

A) My wife and I have kids and I become overweight and inactive
B) Continue at my present level, doing a few hundred more caving and
climbing outings and about 5 to 20 more mountain peaks.
C) Meet an untimely demise, because of excess in B).
D) None of the above.

PPS

Sorry if my ramblings are boring to any of you.

---gora
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